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Post by Tau Ceti Empire on Mar 27, 2014 16:17:04 GMT
I'm not against looking into it. Keep the good ideas coming.
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Post by The Kortl Rheus on Mar 27, 2014 17:43:26 GMT
You could modify how the mounts work - mounts can be restricted to specific ship types in order to make certain modules viable only on specific ships. This is sorta what is already there, with the starliner mount and the starliner population modules.
I suppose it doesn't make sense to me though. Transports are still good enough, why have a two tiered transport system? My original thought was that starliners would be superior in some way that wasn't immediately apparent. Lower maintainance, faster speed, greater cargo capacity. But it doesn't really offer any strong reason to use them.
Maybe I'm missing something though.
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Post by D'Kali Hegemony on Mar 27, 2014 18:45:58 GMT
I just realized one thing that really only would come up in an RP game: Civilian designation. It tended to be very frowned upon in the last game to fire on Starliners.
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Post by Tau Ceti Empire on Mar 27, 2014 18:48:32 GMT
Changing the component side would be easy. The problem is the transport that would be built would still be able to move any type of cargo. Imagine using a starliner to move 6000kt of troops, satellites, mines or fighters extremely cheaply. There wouldn't be much of a point to build the generic transports at that time. Tricky to balance.
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Post by Imperial Hegemon on Mar 27, 2014 18:55:49 GMT
Agreed. I don't mind it being used to move troops, but the remainder if a big issue to me. And D'Kali, I can easily see that. I have civilian designations on my colonizers, my two (now one  ) starliners, and I _think_ my transports but I could be wrong on the transports type. Firing on those would definitely be a bit of a kick start of an issue. Still would be nice if we could find a use for starliners, or figure out how they would best work. |
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on Mar 27, 2014 20:58:37 GMT
These are good ideas to discuss. Keep them coming. I personally wouldn't mind bumping the starliner capacity. I will look into some of the potential implications. I also don't want to create a massive storage monster that will allow the transfer of obscene amounts of other types of cargo instead of population. One other idea I have is to tweak the amount of supplies used by different levels of engines. Right now, supply usage for standard ion engines is the same across lvl 1, 2 and 3. I am posting for work so I don't have the exact number, but I believe it is 13. If we say made it 13 for lvl 1, 12 for lvl 2 and 11 for lvl 3 it would give a bigger improvement than the miniscule supply boost and cost drop of each engine tier and make it a slightly more interesting decision when you hit the next movement speed engine. I wouldn't touch the efficient engines. Thoughts? I'm opposed to bumping up starliner capacity; I think a metric ton for each individual colonist and their stuff needed for a new settlement is reasonably realistic. The engine idea is good. |
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Post by The Kortl Rheus on Mar 28, 2014 1:20:00 GMT
One other idea I have is to tweak the amount of supplies used by different levels of engines. Right now, supply usage for standard ion engines is the same across lvl 1, 2 and 3. I am posting for work so I don't have the exact number, but I believe it is 13. If we say made it 13 for lvl 1, 12 for lvl 2 and 11 for lvl 3 it would give a bigger improvement than the miniscule supply boost and cost drop of each engine tier and make it a slightly more interesting decision when you hit the next movement speed engine. I wouldn't touch the efficient engines. Thoughts? I think a small additional benefit to engines would be nice. Currently the additional supply is almost meaningless, and the reduced cost is negligible (excepting the very rare situations where the slightly reduced cost allows a ship to be produced one turn faster). Currently:Ion Engines I/II/III Mineral cost: 200/180/160 Rad Cost: 50/50/50 Size: 10/10/10 Supply: 250/260/270 Consumption: 13/13/13 Speed: 9/9/9 All of the engines follow this line of progress very close, with exception of the first quantum drive which takes double the space. I would suggest the below changes (more gains in supply holdings, slightly more efficient engine supply usage). Proposed Changes:Ion Engines I/II/III Mineral cost: 200/180/160 Rad Cost: 50/50/50 Size: 10/10/10 Supply: 250/325/400 Consumption: 13/12/11 Speed: 9/9/9 This change would have to be imitated in efficient ion engines. Current:Efficient Ion Engines I/II/III Mineral cost: 100/90/80 Rad Cost: 25/25/25 Size: 10/10/10 Supply: 250/260/270 Consumption: 4/4/4 Speed: 5/5/5 Proposed Changes:Efficient Ion Engines I/II/III Mineral cost: 100/90/80 Rad Cost: 25/25/25 Size: 10/10/10 Supply: 250/325/400 Consumption: 5/4/3 Speed: 5/5/5 This makes the default level mildly worse, but still very viable for early long-range explorer vessels. High performance drives would have to be normalized to this standard as well, but they generally follow the exact model of regular drives with: -1 supply consumption as per default model +1 speed as per default model +100 mineral cost (increases with higher quality rather than reduces, oddly) In the end it's a lot of work, and I'm not sure if they payoff is worth it, but if we're making modifications to proportions, it would certainly add depth to the engine usage. I would also even go further and suggest that Efficient engines take up 5k in size, rather than 10k, as the number of engines remains static, but an efficient engine ship would allow for more storage and fitting options (adding even more depth). |
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Post by Tau Ceti Empire on May 19, 2014 22:25:59 GMT
Now that people have some more experience with the game, please post any ideas for small changes.
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Post by Amarr Empire on May 19, 2014 22:52:39 GMT
If i'm not mistaken it currently requires trading 10 colony ships to give a new type. While I can understand this has some benefits in making trading this sort of tech very difficult, it still seems pretty unnecessary.
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on May 20, 2014 0:00:15 GMT
If this feature is removed then different colony types will be quickly made irrelevant via rapid exchange.
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Post by Tau Ceti Empire on May 20, 2014 0:38:22 GMT
I agree, this tech should be difficult to trade.
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Post by Sethulkra Hive on May 20, 2014 0:43:22 GMT
I would limit changes. Proportions was extensivelly playtested and PvK found what he thought was balance. Unless someone is willing to do all the calculations needed and think through the implications, we run the risk of investing time in a game that may be fatally flawed, much like this very one we're in.
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on May 20, 2014 1:13:45 GMT
I would limit changes. Proportions was extensivelly playtested and PvK found what he thought was balance. Unless someone is willing to do all the calculations needed and think through the implications, we run the risk of investing time in a game that may be fatally flawed, much like this very one we're in. Yes I agree with this totally, I've also grown increasingly suspicious of tweeking things, simply because the law of unintended consequences can easily come to haunt us, as it did with the mappack and player clustering issue. What we have is fine, with the addition of a maintenance cap of some sort and randomized preselected starting positions. |
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Post by The Kortl Rheus on May 20, 2014 3:51:54 GMT
I suppose I've come to agree with this philosophy. If we can bugfix and tweak maintenance to a reasonable level, game should be great. =)
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Post by Solvani Imperium on May 24, 2014 9:07:53 GMT
I would limit changes. Proportions was extensivelly playtested and PvK found what he thought was balance. Unless someone is willing to do all the calculations needed and think through the implications, we run the risk of investing time in a game that may be fatally flawed, much like this very one we're in. I strongly agree with Heber. There is a lot of careful balancing that has gone into the mod that is not immediately visible. I think the obvious bugs should be removed though: maintenance, bugged colony level, high-performance engines bug, efficient+regular engine stacked defense bonus. The other thing I would love to see (but involves more work), is rebalancing some of the racial techs and less useful weapon trees so that people actually use them and everyone doesn't just end up with the same homogeneous weapons and tech by mid-game. Several of the racial techs are relatively useless, which is a shame. The simpler option would be to just reduce their racial point purchase cost to encourage people to take them. |
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) starliners, and I _think_ my transports but I could be wrong on the transports type. Firing on those would definitely be a bit of a kick start of an issue.
