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Post by Imperial Hegemon on Feb 9, 2014 19:58:09 GMT
Welp... guess I'm going to be screwed. My simple scouts cost a _LOT_ more than that in maintenance.
I have a scout with a missile and a bit of supply coming in at 136/19/14.
So clearly I missed some special trick everyone else has done. Oh well, I am playing out my empire to some degree from an RP perspective and not a "OMGOTHERPEOPLEBLOWUPTHEIRPLANET!" way.
That being said, consider the cost of my ships in maintenance compared to yours... I'm screwed.
H11F.
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on Feb 9, 2014 20:02:45 GMT
H11F, I think you are playing the game the way it should be played, and I commend you on that.
Not everyone else took the build. Just half a dozen or so players. But its increasingly clear to me that the players with that build will dominate. One of the players that took the build wanted me to tell everyone to take it, but I would much rather cap that trait so that everyone has more choices in customizing their race to fit their RP style. You shouldn't be automatically fated to be weak just because you refused to stack a single trait to 180+%. I didn't have the support from the other players to push for such a cap, including those who favoured a more RP game. So here we are. However, if and when the people with the over-powered maintenance build overrun the galaxy, perhaps then I may have enough popular support for such a move.
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Post by Amarr Empire on Feb 9, 2014 20:19:33 GMT
One more question, does anyone know much about the religious tree?
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on Feb 9, 2014 20:21:21 GMT
One more question, does anyone know much about the religious tree? Religious tree is in my opinion is not that amazing until you get to the end of its tech tree, which unlocks a component that makes your ship weapons hit 100% of the time. For that reason, some people ban it, but it is allowed for this game. |
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Post by Imperial Hegemon on Feb 9, 2014 21:29:41 GMT
H11F, I think you are playing the game the way it should be played, and I commend you on that. Not everyone else took the build. Just half a dozen or so players. But its increasingly clear to me that the players with that build will dominate. One of the players that took the build wanted me to tell everyone to take it, but I would much rather cap that trait so that everyone has more choices in customizing their race to fit their RP style. You shouldn't be automatically fated to be weak just because you refused to stack a single trait to 180+%. I didn't have the support from the other players to push for such a cap, including those who favoured a more RP game. So here we are. However, if and when the people with the over-powered maintenance build overrun the galaxy, perhaps then I may have enough popular support for such a move. This... actually creates an interesting idea that I will posit and see what you think. Personally, I have NEVER been a fan of huge fleets and quickly built ships. Maybe it is just me, but it feels like a very RTS element - QUICK! Build 100+ of this unit so I can swarm everywhere. There needs to be little strategic thought with regards to resource husbandry. Instead, it's push them out and battle and see how I fair! Now, that is not to say there isn't OTHER strategic elements and by and far, SE provides for many of them. But a thought... if ship construction were slower, and maintenance costs higher, would not empires not then think twice about committing a ships to battle? Or contemplate what is truly needed? Not just: I'll build this! and this! and this! Again, I am just brain storming and this is my FIRST multiplayer game, so I could be right out of it. Oh, and as for the RP... I think I am lucking out where I am. If anything, I'm falling behind my companions in my region of space as they seem to be far more active on the RP element. 3 papers this weekend reduced my interest, and I'm cooking food for an entire week today (keto!), but hopefully I can get a few snippits of RP out for them to enjoy as well! H11F. |
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on Feb 9, 2014 21:41:32 GMT
H11F, I think you are playing the game the way it should be played, and I commend you on that. Not everyone else took the build. Just half a dozen or so players. But its increasingly clear to me that the players with that build will dominate. One of the players that took the build wanted me to tell everyone to take it, but I would much rather cap that trait so that everyone has more choices in customizing their race to fit their RP style. You shouldn't be automatically fated to be weak just because you refused to stack a single trait to 180+%. I didn't have the support from the other players to push for such a cap, including those who favoured a more RP game. So here we are. However, if and when the people with the over-powered maintenance build overrun the galaxy, perhaps then I may have enough popular support for such a move. This... actually creates an interesting idea that I will posit and see what you think. Personally, I have NEVER been a fan of huge fleets and quickly built ships. Maybe it is just me, but it feels like a very RTS element - QUICK! Build 100+ of this unit so I can swarm everywhere. There needs to be little strategic thought with regards to resource husbandry. Instead, it's push them out and battle and see how I fair! Now, that is not to say there isn't OTHER strategic elements and by and far, SE provides for many of them. But a thought... if ship construction were slower, and maintenance costs higher, would not empires not then think twice about committing a ships to battle? Or contemplate what is truly needed? Not just: I'll build this! and this! and this! Again, I am just brain storming and this is my FIRST multiplayer game, so I could be right out of it. Oh, and as for the RP... I think I am lucking out where I am. If anything, I'm falling behind my companions in my region of space as they seem to be far more active on the RP element. 3 papers this weekend reduced my interest, and I'm cooking food for an entire week today (keto!), but hopefully I can get a few snippits of RP out for them to enjoy as well! H11F. I couldn't agree more. And H11F, in previous games that was the case. Loosing a fleet often would end a war, simply because it was so valuable. I remember once I lost a 50 ship fleet through a bad warp jump through an unstable warp point, and I pretty much had to call off an offensive and sue for peace (although pretending in negotiations that the fleet still existed,  ) Obviously in this game, with the ridiculous 200+% maintenance reduction builds, this won't happen for certain players, at least not anywhere close to the same extent. If the situation in this game gets a little ridiculous because of it, we will start a parallel game with builds like that banned (or discouraged through modding the racial trait files) |
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Post by Imperial Hegemon on Feb 9, 2014 22:04:34 GMT
Seen and tracking. I guess for me it's the idea that everything matters. This probably contributes to my interest in this particular mod that makes colonies just so valuable. And you've already made it clear how that type of thinking and resource management matters in a game like that. Side note, keep getting sidelong glances from the GF as I zone out in the midst of cooking  |
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on Feb 9, 2014 22:06:42 GMT
Seen and tracking. I guess for me it's the idea that everything matters. This probably contributes to my interest in this particular mod that makes colonies just so valuable. And you've already made it clear how that type of thinking and resource management matters in a game like that. Side note, keep getting sidelong glances from the GF as I zone out in the midst of cooking My wife has this nasty habit of coming to chat whenever I happen to be doing/processing the turn, which I only do once a day, but is now firmly embedded in her mind as "all the time" |
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Post by Imperial Hegemon on Feb 9, 2014 23:42:23 GMT
All this said... I see I've helped completely derail this thread! Time to bring 'er back on track.
Colony Management. Tips and tricks for the creation of new colonies? How are they specialized? Similar to stock SEIV or, as I'm noticing in the research tree a few techs which have descriptions that state they are for the AI, should I assume it's a bit different?
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Post by D'Kali Hegemony on Feb 9, 2014 23:43:31 GMT
Hearing the number behind what that high-maintainence build is allowing, I too agree that it's a little scary. I personally have not taken such a build; in fact the D'Kali practically break rule #1 of Space Empires: tank your Ground Combat That aside, colonies are your life, protect them. Your home world is nigh on invincible from orbital bombardment in the early and mid game, but colonies are very vulnerable. Those are what you need your fleets to protect. |
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Post by Sethulkra Hive on Feb 9, 2014 23:50:39 GMT
Well, I agree that maintenance reduction can be overpowered. I've tried that in the past but I was never able to take full advantage of the bonus because I could only pump out so many ships per turn and my research lagged behind. I didn't become a superpower. This time, I tried to sacrifice some more stuff so I would be able to construct more ships and research a little more.
There are so many viable strategies that I think it isn't a ticket to win the game. I'm certain that as the game progresses, you will perhaps question your decision to invest so many points in it at the expense of most racial traits.
It should be a little more expensive, that's for sure.
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Post by Sethulkra Hive on Feb 10, 2014 0:03:49 GMT
Colony specialization is very important in this mod, even more than stock SE4. You will get nowhere if you try to get your colonies and/or homeworld to do a little of everything. If a planet has an above average mineral value, you should certainly only build mineral facilities and a mineral scanner. When its all filled, you can scrap one of the smaller facilities and start building a cultural facility that will multiply your production many times over. If it has an above average organic value, build farm and an agricultural facility. The same goes for Research and Radioactives.
Researching Industry can do a lot for you. If you slowly scrap one facility at a time and build a Megaplex version of it on the homeworld, your resource and research base will grow much faster than if you had invested in colonies. The Homeworld is much easier to defend too.
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Post by Imperial Hegemon on Feb 11, 2014 0:17:20 GMT
Now, I've read it a few times where people state colonies are more rare. I see just as many viable planets as normal, what is it that makes colonies so rare? Is it the amount of time it takes to develop them? Or...?
Does it COST more to develop a colony in this mod? I just want to make sure I understand well enough so I don't go grabbing a number of planets, only to be broke. Or on the flip side, just grab one and realize afterwards everyone else has a baker's dozen.
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Post by Amarr Empire on Feb 11, 2014 0:33:55 GMT
Is it pretty normal for colony ships with the max amount of early game engines to be pretty slow? (like 2 moves per turn)
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Post by Sethulkra Hive on Feb 11, 2014 0:40:42 GMT
Colony ships are expensive and take a while to build besides moving very slowly. The colonies itself take a very long time to develop and will be a net drain for the first few months and years.
You can improve the speed of your colony ships researching "Fast Colony Ships" tech area but don't hold your breath. The increase is only marginal. Colony ships will never be fast.
I don't think you would be broke if you took a large number of colonies, but each one of them will require large investments to be worthwhile and you will probably have to spread thin your fleets to defend them. Defensibility should be a major consideration whether to sunk time and resources in a specific world or not.
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