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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on May 14, 2014 23:00:23 GMT
For those interested, I gathered some data on just how much the maintenance reduction trait lowers cost. Forgive me for the primitive nature of the graphs. The first graph is the raw data: i.imgur.com/otazf2d.pngSo, an end-game colony ship would cost about 5576 resources in maintenance if you had maintenance reduction at 100%. This cost drops to 4502 at 120%, 3700 at 140%, 2358 at 160%, 1285 at 180%, and 257 at 200%. In other words, someone with a maintenance reduction level around 100% is paying about 21 times as much in maintenance as someone who's maintenance reduction is closer to the 200% mark. As such, given two players with roughly equal resources, the person with 200% maintenance reduction is able to actively field a fleet 21 times larger than a player with normal maintenance reduction. As you can imagine, it dosent matter if that 100% maintenance player has 120% to combat, or 115% to resource production. It's a joke of a non-contest. This change is non-linear, as demonstrated in this second graph looking at the trait's marginal cost reduction as a percentage: i.imgur.com/PhqWKCg.pngAs you can see, the effects don't get overly dramatic until after the 150% mark, and after 180% it gets nutty. Despite there being a theoretical possibility of 210%, it appears that 200% is the cap for an increased marginal effect. |
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Vyrex
Junior Member
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Post by Vyrex on May 14, 2014 23:04:24 GMT
 Now I feel dumb for not maxing that trait out. |
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on May 14, 2014 23:08:13 GMT
Its ok, when we allowed max maintenance reduction for this game, people didn't generally realize how ridiculously overpowered it was. I think its gamey and broken as a trait, to be honest, and one way or another nobody will be allowed to have 180+ maintenance in the future, at least not without severely stripping every other trait.
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Post by D'Kali Hegemony on May 15, 2014 2:29:22 GMT
Don't feel dumb for not maxing it out. As the UE pointed out, we didn't know just how ridiculous the problem was until we saw it in game, and our admins did more testing. For some reason, the Maintenance Reduction trait is highly exponential in its benefits, as opposed to almost every other racial stat in the game.
With that in mind, I would think our next game will either be using a modified version of Proportions, a gentleman's agreement on that particular stat, or both.
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Post by The Kortl Rheus on May 15, 2014 5:30:43 GMT
I think we're working on a new edition of the mod that will have revised and fixed a few small bugs.
Implementing a hard cap on Maint reduction and tripling the cost should make it impossible to see that kind of exponential gains with spending points in that trait.
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Post by The Kortl Rheus on May 15, 2014 5:40:54 GMT
What I'd be interested in is figuring out if we could reverse engineer the formula that grants exponential benefits and/or edit that formula.
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Post by Sethulkra Hive on May 15, 2014 13:11:32 GMT
No, the only modifiable parameters are cost and the cap.
As far as I know, the cap is currently at 190%. reduction. I would decrease the cap to something like 150% OR double the cost.
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Vyrex
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by Vyrex on May 15, 2014 15:06:40 GMT
Wasn't someone making an open source SEIV?
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Post by Amarr Empire on May 15, 2014 16:51:27 GMT
Wasn't someone making an open source SEIV? there is an open source project to do that i believe it is called FreEe or something to that effect. However I feel most projects of this sort are vaporware and never really reach a 1.0 type status. |
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Post by The Kortl Rheus on May 15, 2014 16:58:33 GMT
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Vyrex
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by Vyrex on May 15, 2014 17:05:49 GMT
Sweet. Thanks for the link Norak! At the very least, I hope they add far more customizability to mods(so that the more..esoteric things can be modified. I know the nomadic race mod was a real PITA to get right, plus there's the point progression here!)
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Post by Tau Ceti Empire on May 15, 2014 17:37:48 GMT
I have been toying with a modified version of the mod to correct this issue. I am still working on the final numbers, but I have changed the point costs and caps on several of the traits in an effort to alleviate the stacking nature of this trait while still allowing it to beneficial to whoever invests into it. When I am a little closer with my numbers I will release it for people to play with and provide feedback.
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Post by Amarr Empire on May 16, 2014 0:26:34 GMT
IIRC wasn't maxing of maintenance discouraged? Are there people in this game with 180+?
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Post by Dominion of Zabéara on May 16, 2014 0:42:45 GMT
Khizlek and I are both 180+, and I think Master System is as well.
I only took it because Khizlek did, and was unable to convince enough people to support a ban, which I originally agitated for. If the Universal Edifice and Aalien Empire succeed in conquering Khizlek and restoring the Norak Schism, I will artificially triple my maintenance costs so that other players can still compete with me. An imperfect solution, but better than nothing.
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Post by Solvani Imperium on May 16, 2014 10:12:44 GMT
There are a couple other players as well, although maybe not to the same extent.
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Now I feel dumb for not maxing that trait out.
